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Rajdeep: These are tough times for Mumbai. How does 26/11 affect you as a Mumbaikar? If I can call you that today because you are very much a part of this city, this city has made you.
Shah Rukh: I am from Delhi. I have seen riots in Delhi and when I came to Mumbai in 1993, there were these bomb blasts, and now I have seen it through 26/11. More than a Mumbaikar, I feel more Indian than I’ve felt before and specifically because I like to believe that I am an educated, liberal Muslim who has a Hindu wife and two kids. The more I see these kinds of things, the more it makes me realise the vulnerability of life and how important it is for me to spend time with my loved ones. When I think of my loved ones now, that circle is increasing. It has not got to do with only my wife, my children and couple of friends. It is now increasing, I want to spend time with all the people I thought that I can like or love and slowly I believe this is going to make everyone in the country do the same. We are going to spread this circle of love. I think tragedy has strange sense of uniting people, so it is making me feel that I need to spend every living hour of my life with people who matter a lot.
Rajdeep: Because you could be sitting at the Kandahar or Tiffin at the Oberoi or the Golden Dragon at the Taj, one moment celebrating your friend's birthday or your anniversary and the next moment there is a guy with a gun who is shooting randomly. It almost makes you philosophical.
Shah Rukh: It makes you philosophical not only in these specific areas. You could be walking on the roadside. What happened in Mumbai must be happening everywhere, in the railway stations and it is happening to many people. You are just walking. I get very scared now, when my kids have to be sent to school in the school bus. It could happen to anybody. The whole reality is that it could happen to anyone of us, it is not bound by areas or castes or creed or colour. It can happen to anyone.
Rajdeep: What 26/11 has also done to Mumbai, is unite people - Hindus, Muslims, people across the class divide. It could be a child of privilege going to the Taj or Oberoi or be at Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus taking the night train. It could be a north Indian or it could be a Maharashtrian, it has broken down all barriers.
Shah Rukh: Absolutely, if you can take away any positive thing from this tragedy and have some kind of peace in your heart to be able to look at that. I think the very thing that the terrorists try to destroy is unity, secularism, the economy and just the dignity of the country. I think for the first time, we all have come to realise that that very thing has actually strengthened. The unity has got strengthened and I cannot say I am glad but I can say that if you can take away anything positive, that in itself is biggest positive. They have now given us the biggest weapon against them and we need to utilise that in the best way possible.
Rajdeep: Which is unity?
Shah Rukh: Yes, unity across classes, across religions and I think the clergies should also take a note from this aspect and say okay whatever we say, whatever we do, wherever we come from, whichever religion we promote, somewhere down the line a situation has arisen in our country that all of us are not going to listen to it if it is going to be lopsided. We will only listen to things which will unite us now.
Rajdeep: On Wednesday, there was a sea of people at the Gateway of India. It started off with an SMS campaign and built out through social networking — and there was a sea of people bashing the politicians but also in a strange way uniting people in wanting answers. You sense that there is a generation out there which is now coming out?
Shah Rukh: Absolutely, I am a true believer and at this point of time I also believe that at 43, I am a little older than the younger generation. But, I truly believe that we are venting right now and we need to. We are frustrated, we are cynical, and we are angry and rightly so. At this point of time we are finding various areas to vent out, whether they are politicians, whether they are some services which failed, we will do all that but I just want to tell the youngsters not to let go of this frustration, anger and cynicism. Use it as a constructive, aggressive move towards bringing a change. This is a historical turning point for us which is going to bring the young people together. Ask questions and listen to the answers and if the answers are not right, ask the questions again or change the people who are giving those answers.
Rajdeep: Are you willing to be a part of that change?
Shah Rukh: Absolutely.
Rajdeep: In what way? You are an icon for that entire generation, that generation which has grown up watching Shah Rukh Khan’s movies. So are you willing to be a part of that change? I am not going to the point of saying that is Shah Rukh Khan willing to join politics. I don't know whether you'll like to.
Shah Rukh: I think there should be people who are cut out for the jobs. I have no negative feelings against politics or politicians. I also understand the fact that their hands are tied — that there is going to be international scheming. Of course, they were not prepared, that the worst politicians are opportunist, and that the best politicians sometimes get their hands tied because of this whole voting thing. They actually want a change but they want some more time, but yes I am truly a part of this movement.
Rajdeep: But not becoming a politician? I am not seeing Shah Rukh Khan doing a repeat of an NGR, NTR or the southern politician. That is not what you are comfortable with?
Shah Rukh: No, but I would give my full support to those who are cut out for this job, who are younger. There is corruption in our system and we are all corrupt but somewhere down the line if someone has to move away from it, I am there. The other day, Aamir said a wonderful thing his blog. He said that the youth needs to form a political party, they need to come forward and I am there to support them in any which way possible.
Rajdeep: You believe that the generational change must take place. We are a younger country now. 60-65 per cent of Indian population is under younger people now. Do you think the time has come for the younger politicians to come, people who inspire hope rather than cynicism?
Shah Rukh: Absolutely right. Hope with a little bit of anger which is used constructively. You need to have the madness of the youth because the youth today is not uneducated or silly. If you can get the youth to behave radically like the terrorists do, you can make sure that the youth of this country behave in a positive way.
Rajdeep: You mentioned in the beginning of this interview that you are a liberal Muslim. What has been interesting — your Indian identity or your Muslim identity? You are a proud Indian Muslim, now when you hear terrorists who speak in the name of the religion, speak in the name of Islam, claim that through some form of terrorism they'll actually reach jannat (paradise), what do you have to say them?
Shah Rukh: Let me clarify, I have read the holy Quran. It states that if you heal one man, you heal the whole mankind, and if you hurt one man, you hurt the whole mankind. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that jihad will lead you to jannat. As a matter of fact, the book says that in a war, you can not kill any woman, you can not kill any child and you can not kill any animal, or destroy any crops. Jihad was supposed to be propagated by the Prophet himself but unfortunately now two versions of Islam exist. There is an Islam from Allah and - I am not being anti - very unfortunately, there is an Islam from the Mullahs. I appeal to all of them to please give the youngsters, the right reading of the Quran.
Rajdeep: So, they are distorting religion.
Shah Rukh: Yes, absolutely. All these things have emerged in the last 100-120 years. These things didn’t happen 1000-500 year ago. I'll tell you jihad is something to be called upon by the Prophet himself and if you go by what is written, jihad has a very simple logic. There have to be debates, there has to be proper understanding — either you convince me about your view point or I convince you with mine, and even then also if we don't understand we go our separate ways. I have readQuran many times over the last 2-3 years. Nowhere does jihadsay that you should enter someone's terrority. Jihad says that if someone else comes into your territory then you should protect yourself.
Rajdeep: Does it trouble you then? There are societies which even sent SMSes like “Not every Muslim is a terrorist but all terrorists are Muslims”. These are some SMSes which have done rounds in the middleclass and upper-middleclass in our societies. Now people are coming to terms that there are all forms of terror.
Shah Rukh: Yes, I can't deny this anymore. Two year back I used to get very disturbed whenever the Americans said that all terrorists are Muslim. But now I can't deny that because 95-99 per cent of the people who are caught or shot claim to be Muslims.
Rajdeep: Though, there are hate speeches from both the communities.
Shah Rukh: I think there should be law against Hindu and Muslim hardliners. Political parties with communal agenda and organisations which misread any of the books like Quran or Gita should not be allowed. There should be a hardliner treatment for the hardliners. I also like to believe tha some of us are born Muslims but they have been misled. They are Muslims by birth but not by teachings. The teachings of Islam are as good, as wonderful as the teachings of the Gita or the Bible. They are all the same and I think the youngsters understand this much better and that is why I have a huge hope in them.
Rajdeep: I saw a lot of posters at the Gateway of India that day which said, ‘Let us bomb Pakistan, let us destroy the terrorists based in Pakistan’. Aren’t these messages leading to dangerous jingoism? At one level, Shah Rukh Khan is an icon not only in India but in Pakistan too. So you can be a bridge builder at a time when people try to divide communities. We can't bomb Pakistan, we can't blame all Pakistani society for the acts of these terrorists.
Shah Rukh: No, absolutely not. Like I said this is a passionate reaction. That is the first reaction that comes out but I have a huge amount of faith in the goodness of Indians and I think they would understand this. When they say this, they are very clear. As Rice said we are the 'non-state actors'. Of course if the non-state actors are in a certain state then the time has come that state looks at us saying listen guys let's do it together. I think more than me as a bridge builder, who can just be a cultural builder; I think no more going in buses across the roads I think the top five people from our country from the Government should sit down and say listen we have to accept this that these guys are somewhere down the line being born and brought up in a country and it is destroying their country too, it is not that it is happening only to us.
Rajdeep: So, you can't just have co-production of films, let's have a co-production on terror. Let's have a joint mechanism for terror.
Shah Rukh: Absolutely, the time has come that the both parties. I am very honest about this, I am sensing. I am not sensing dishonesty but what I am sensing is that everybody is trying to protect themselves. You can't say it is not happening in Pakistan, you can't completely deny.
Rajdeep: So, Pakistan is living in complete denial?
Shah Rukh: They are living in denial and of course some of us are also reacting by saying just bomb Pakistan. Like I said the first standard of Jehad, if I was to tell you as a Muslim is debate. Let us sit down and accept the truth, accpeting the truth makes the problem vanish. Let us accept the truth that these guys are being trained there, we are not clamining that the government is doing that, we are simply saying they are being trained. Can gobvernment do something about it, yes we can. Lets try to finsih them off in the best way possible.
Rajdeep: Shah Rukh will you be able to debate with fanatics, be it a Hindu or a Muslim fanatic. Are you ready to have that debate?
Shah Rukh: I think fanatics have no ground stand, it is very easy to debate with fanatics because I think they are misinformed, illinformed and they have no ground stand. Any normal, educated, well brought up Indian or Pakistani can debate with a fanatic from either sides and win the debate very easily. They have no answers after a while, I am again and again saying that if you are following Allah's words, even if you are following Gita's words or Biblical words, there is no place anywhere which will say this.
Rajdeep: There is no place in the civilised society for an AK47, you can not take the lives of innocent people on the name of religion and claim that you are following denis of Quran? This is a complete distortion of a great book?
Shah Rukh: You and I don't know how heaven is going to be like. You and I genuinely know what god is going to be like. But I can assure you that you and I both know it very clearly that by hurting someone who is innocent there is no way, no god in this world is going to give heaven.
Rajdeep: Do you think after as a result what has happened in Mumbai, India is going to be a stronger place or a weaker place?
Shah Rukh: I think as I told that this is going to be a historical turning point of change. There is no way that this is not going to unite us together. I see an amazing amount of hope.
Rajdeep: This is like the Obama's generation coming - 'Yes,we can'.
Shah Rukh: Yes, 100 per cent. There are people who can do it and will do it and very-very clearly. I was just telling this to someone the other day that we need to see within ourself. The youth don't have the barriers of the history so they can take a call which are new for the modern world and I again and again say that don't offer the other cheek. If the other person slaps you and says it very clearly that I am sorry then say it is okay but we can take it again and again. I am not saying bomb xyz but we can't allow people come to our houses and destroy our families.
Rajdeep: Zero tolerance for the terror.
Shah Rukh: Zero tolerance for the terror and lack of security. We need to set up such organisations and tell them that we will not tolerate this and right now I can sense this in the country.
Rajdeep: And, then we debate issues like terror laws, police forces, modernisation of the police. We can't have rifles against AK47. So you are saying let us have a clear debate on terror. Lets be united, let us not make it an ideological debate or a religious debate, let us make it for better laws and tougher laws without ideology?
Shah Rukh: Absolutely, if we want to win this time let not ideological and religious stuff come in our way. I think we have got a chance where we have come on the same platform where we are equally scared and I think fear is the key for unity. Let us use this fear in an aggressive and positive way without getting affected by ideological, political, communal things.
Rajdeep: So fear is translated to anger which hopefully is going to be translated into action?
Shah Rukh: But it is constructive aggressive.
Rajdeep: Right through this you submit on books like a politician. I am tempting you again in some way, do you see yourself to have that kind of a role in public life or do you think Shah Rukh Khan's role is to be a cultural ambassador who also has a strong view on issues which put you as a role model and communicate to the younger generation?
Shah Rukh: I'll be honest. I truly believe a politician has to be completely selfless, has to it for a community, area, state and country. I'll be very honest about it. I am not scared but I am not selfless enough to be a politician. I think young guys should understand that are you selfless enough to be a politician. I wish five year down the line I become selfless and if I could do something for this country which has given me everything that I am today. I won't lie that I don't want to be a politician but I don't have the right qualities to be a politician. I am still too caught up in my own small world for making things work for myself and for my family.
Rajdeep: But, you said 26/11 has changed you and the world of many-many Indians, you believe it is a very-very defining moment
Shah Rukh: Absolutely, I can't say we are fortunate but we are in the middle of an amazing, historical event which is only going to make our country stronger. At the same time, I can't say I am happy but I am at peace if I can be a part of this movement. And, if I can be a part of this movement in a longer term as you said as a politician but I am not selfless enough. But I am sure there are enough people outside who are selfless enough to do this.
Rajdeep: Shah Rukh it has been a pleasure talking to you. The words you have said today echo across the country and your thoughts need to be understood by every man. Thank you Shah Rukh.
Shah Rukh: Thank you.
